Category: Reading Hieroglyphs

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Egyptian Artifacts Reading Hieroglyphs

Sandstone Relief of the God’s Wife of Amun Making an Offering to Amun-Ra

This sandstone π“‚‹π“…±π“‚§π“π“Œ—π“ˆ™ relief is dated to the Third Intermediate Period (Dynasty 25, c. 710-670 B.C.E.) and is most likely from Karnak. It depicts the God’s Wife of Amun, named Amunirdis I, making an offering π“Š΅π“π“Šͺ𓏏𓏔𓏦 of Maat π“™π“Œ΄π“‚£π“π“¦ to Amun-Ra π“‡‹π“ π“ˆ–π“‡³π“Ί. Standing behind Amun-Ra π“‡‹π“ π“ˆ–π“‡³π“Ί is the god π“ŠΉ Khonsu π“π“ˆ–π“‡“π“…±π“€― (god of the moon π“‡‹π“‚π“Ž›π“‡Ή) who is the son π“…­ of Amun-Ra π“‡‹π“ π“ˆ–π“‡³π“Ί and the goddess π“ŠΉπ“ Mut 𓏏𓄿𓀭.

In the Third Intermediate Period, the β€œGod’s Wife of Amun” was a very powerful position to be in – at some points, they even had as much power as the pharaoh 𓉐𓉻! The women who had this title were either the wife π“‡“π“π“π“ˆž, mother 𓅐𓏏𓁐, or daughter 𓅭𓏏 of the pharaoh 𓉐𓉻 and would be in charge of performing necessary rituals at festivals and religious ceremonies.

Let’s read some hieroglyphs π“ŠΉπ“Œƒπ“ͺ!

π“‡‹π“ π“ˆ–π“‡³π“Ί – Amun-Ra
π“‡“π“π“ˆ– – King of the
π“ŠΉπ“ŠΉπ“ŠΉ – Gods

π“‡‹π“ π“ˆ–π“‡³π“Ίπ“‡“π“π“ˆ–π“ŠΉπ“ŠΉπ“ŠΉ – β€œAmun-Ra, King of the Gods.”

Here’s the inscription directly next to Amun-Ra:

π“‰Όπ“ŠΉ – Great God
π“ŽŸ – Lord
π“Šͺ𓏏𓇯 – Sky

π“‰Όπ“ŠΉπ“ŽŸπ“Šͺ𓏏𓇯 – β€œGreat God, Lord of the Sky.”

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Blog Reading Hieroglyphs

Tutankhamun’s Cartouche Box Replica

Here’s a bit of a different post for today! One of my absolute favorite pieces besides the Hatshepsut π“‡‹π“ π“ˆ–π“ŽΉπ“π“„‚π“π“€Όπ“ͺ statue π“„šπ“ˆ–π“π“­π“€Ύ and the Anubis shrine 𓃣 is the wooden 𓆱𓏏𓏺 cartouche box from Tutankhamun’s π“‡‹π“ π“ˆ–π“π“…±π“π“‹Ήπ“‹Ύπ“‰Ίπ“‡“ tomb π“‡‹π“«π“Šƒπ“‰. I have always loved this piece because Tutankhatmun’s π“‡‹π“ π“ˆ–π“π“…±π“π“‹Ήπ“‹Ύπ“‰Ίπ“‡“ cartouche was one of the first hieroglyphic phrases that I learned how to read. I remember being so proud for being able to decipher its meaning when I first started learning! I remember showing my Nonno how I could read it! This box was just the beginning of my journey into the Egyptian language!

So let’s read some hieroglyphs π“ŠΉπ“Œƒπ“ͺ!

π“‡‹π“ π“ˆ– – Amun
𓏏𓅱𓏏 – Tut (image)
π“‹Ή – Ankh (life/living)
π“‹Ύ – Ruler
𓉺 – of/on
𓇓 – Upper Egypt

So all put together, the cartouche says β€œTutankhamun, Ruler of Upper Egypt.” The name π“‚‹π“ˆ– Tutankamun means β€œLiving Image of Amun.” Amun π“‡‹π“ π“ˆ– is placed first in the cartouche because of honorific transposition – the name π“‚‹π“ˆ– of the god π“ŠΉ is always placed (out of respect) first even though it is said last.

The wooden 𓆱𓏏𓏺 cartouche box was one of the pieces featured at the King Tut exhibit in the USA back in 2007, and I spent so much time just looking at this piece while I was there! I was struck by the beauty π“„€ of the hieroglyphs π“ŠΉπ“Œƒπ“ͺ made of ebony and ivory. Seeing the box in person cemented it as one of my most favorite artifacts of all time! I have always wanted a replica (usually they are so expensive), and now I have one! This replica is very detailed and I got it on Amazon!

Fun Fact: The ancient Egyptians π“†Žπ“π“€€π“π“ͺ referred to the cartouche as shen 𓍢 (cartouche is actually a French word). The word shen 𓍢 is derived from the verb meaning “to encircle.” The purpose of the cartouche was to represent the pharaoh as ruler of all that the sun 𓇳𓏀 encircled! Shen 𓍢 was also representative of infinity, completeness, and protection.

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Reading Hieroglyphs

Bronze Blade with Hatshepsut’s Cartouche

Believe it or not, this seemingly plain piece was probably one of my favorite objects that I saw in the Petrie Museum. I was so excited when I saw it, because Hatshepsut’s 𓇳𓁦𓂓 throne name appears on it! Since I absolutely love anything to do with Hatshepsut 𓇳𓁦𓂓, I was incredibly excited to see something with her name π“‚‹π“ˆ– on it. I also think this piece is unpublished, so it was a total surprise for me to see that it even existed! Since her name π“‚‹π“ˆ–appears on the blade, it means that it was most certainly made during her time as pharaoh 𓉐𓉻.

While it doesn’t look like much, this piece is actually a bronze π“ˆ”π“€π“ˆ’π“¦ blade that was once attached to a handle.

Let’s read some hieroglyphs π“ŠΉπ“Œƒπ“ͺ!

π“„€π“ŠΉ – Great God

(𓇳𓁦𓂓) – Maatkare (Hatshepsut’s Throne Name – translates to β€œTruth 𓁦 is the Soul π“‚“ of Re 𓇳.”)

π“‡‹π“ π“ˆ– – Amun

𓏃𓂦𓂦- Holiest of Holies (the name given to Hatshepsut’s temple at Deir el-Bahri. It can also be written as 𓏃𓂦𓂦𓉐 or most commonly as 𓂦𓂋𓂦π“₯𓉐).

π“ŒΊπ“‡Œ – Beloved

Put together, the inscription reads: π“„€π“ŠΉ(𓇳𓁦𓂓)π“‡‹π“ π“ˆ–π“ƒπ“‚¦π“‚¦π“ŒΊπ“‡Œ β€œThe Great God Maatkare, Beloved of Amun, Holiest of Holies.”

Interestingly, Hatshepsut π“‡‹π“ π“ˆ–π“ŽΉπ“π“„‚π“π“€Όπ“ͺ is referred to as β€œThe Great God π“„€π“ŠΉβ€ instead of the β€œGreat Goddess π“„€π“ŠΉπ“β€ as she usually is in inscriptions π“Ÿπ“›π“₯. I honestly think this is a spacing issue because the blade is so small π“ˆ–π“†“π“‹΄π“…©. A lot of the words on this blade are the shortened version. For example, Amun is written as π“‡‹π“ π“ˆ– instead of π“‡‹π“ π“ˆ–π“€­, and Holiest of Holies is very shortened to the point of almost being unrecognizable (𓏃𓂦𓂦 instead of 𓂦𓂋𓂦π“₯𓉐). There are also many variations of Beloved π“ŒΊπ“‡Œ, but this shortened version of the word is very commonly seen in inscriptions π“Ÿπ“›π“₯.

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Reading Hieroglyphs

Reading the Cartouche of the Pharaoh Unas

Let’s read some hieroglyphs π“ŠΉπ“Œƒπ“ͺ!!

One of the best ways to practice reading hieroglyphs π“ŠΉπ“Œƒπ“ͺ (especially phonogram symbols) is to read the cartouches of some of the pharaohs 𓉐𓉻𓏦 from the Old Kingdom! The reason why they are great to practice phonogram symbols is because the names π“‚‹π“ˆ–π“¦ are very phonetic!

Let’s take a look at the cartouche of the pharaoh 𓉐𓉻 Unas:

(π“ƒΉπ“ˆ–π“‡‹π“‹΄) – Unas

Here is a breakdown of the symbols:

The β€œhare 𓃹” is normally used as a phonogram, which means that it is a symbol that represents sounds, and is usually part of a larger word! The hare 𓃹 is a biliteral sign which means it represents two consonants. The 𓃹 represents the sounds β€œwn.”

The β€œripple of water π“ˆ–β€ is also a phonogram sign, except it is uniliteral sign, which means that it just represents one consonant. The β€œπ“ˆ–β€ is associated with the sound of β€œn!”

The β€œreed 𓇋” is a uniliteral phonogram for β€œΔ±Ν—,” however it can also function as an ideogram for the word β€œreed 𓇋𓏺.”

The β€œfolded cloth 𓋴” is a uniliteral phonogram for β€œs.”

So the transliteration of the cartouche would be: β€œwnnΔ±Ν—s.” This would be pronounced/written as β€œUnas.”

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Reading Hieroglyphs

Ptah in Hieroglyphs

Here is a zoomed in view of an inscription π“Ÿπ“›π“₯ with the name π“‚‹π“ˆ– of the god π“ŠΉ Ptah π“Šͺπ“π“Ž›π“± from a large statue π“„šπ“ˆ–π“π“­π“€Ύ that originally belonged to the pharaoh 𓉐𓉻 Amenemhat II π“‡‹π“ π“ˆ–π“…“π“„‚π“, however, the statue π“„šπ“ˆ–π“π“­π“€Ύ was usurped by Rameses II π“©π“›π“ˆ˜π“„Ÿπ“‹΄π“‡“.

As we learned yesterday, Ptah π“Šͺπ“π“Ž›π“± was the chief god π“ŠΉ of Memphis π“ π“ˆ–π“„€π“†‘π“‚‹π“‰΄π“Š– and was considered a great protector of Egypt π“†Žπ“…“π“π“Š–. In the Book of the Dead, Ptah π“Šͺπ“π“Ž›π“± is referred to as β€œThe Master Architect,” and β€œFramer of Everything in the Universe” due to his role in β€œspeaking” the world 𓇾𓇾 into creation!

Let’s read some hieroglyphs π“ŠΉπ“Œƒπ“ͺ! Now, these two 𓏻 inscriptions π“Ÿπ“›π“₯ are divided by a line because they are part of a larger text that is read downwards; they are not meant to be read together! However, I really wanted the closeup of Ptah’s π“Šͺπ“π“Ž›π“± name π“‚‹π“ˆ–, so we are going to read them this way from my picture 𓏏𓅱𓏏𓏦!

You probably know the first phrase already:
π“ŽŸπ“‡Ώπ“‡Ώ – Lord of the Two Lands
(π“‡³π“„Šπ“§π“‡³π“‰π“ˆ–) – Rameses II (throne name Usermaatre)
π“Šͺπ“π“Ž›π“± – Ptah
𓉼 – Great (then the inscription continues…)

Ptah π“Šͺπ“π“Ž›π“± can be written a couple of different ways in hieroglyphs π“ŠΉπ“Œƒπ“ͺ, but the phonogram symbols are always the same. Sometimes, the determinative symbol is left out because of spacing issues! Once you can recognize the first three 𓏼 symbols, you are well on your way to finding Ptah’s name π“‚‹π“ˆ– on monuments/artifacts!

Here are the different ways to write his name π“‚‹π“ˆ–:
π“Šͺπ“π“Ž›π“±
π“Šͺπ“π“Ž›π“€­
π“Šͺπ“π“Ž›π“°
π“Šͺπ“π“Ž›

The full statue that the inscription is on the back of
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Reading Hieroglyphs

“Images” in Hieroglyphs

This is a zoomed in view of some hand-written hieroglyphs π“ŠΉπ“Œƒπ“ͺ from a copy of The Book of the Dead! These hieroglyphs π“ŠΉπ“Œƒπ“ͺ were written on papyrus 𓅓𓍑𓏏𓏛 and are so beautiful π“„€! I always love seeing hand-written hieroglyphs π“ŠΉπ“Œƒπ“ͺ because usually papyri 𓅓𓍑𓏏𓏛𓏦 were usually written in Hieratic!

Let’s read some hieroglyphs π“ŠΉπ“Œƒπ“ͺ!

You might recognize this word as one that I use a lot: 𓏏𓅱𓏏𓏦! The word β€œtwt 𓏏𓅱𓏏𓏦” (probably pronounced like β€œtut”) is the word for β€œimage” in Middle Egyptian! Adding the 𓏦 to the end makes it plural, so β€œimage 𓏏𓅱𓏏” becomes β€œimages 𓏏𓅱𓏏𓏦.”

So why did I choose to highlight this particular word?! It’s because 𓏏𓅱𓏏 was one of the first Middle Egyptian words that I learned when I was first starting to read hieroglyphs π“ŠΉπ“Œƒπ“ͺ! The reason being is that it is part of Tutankhamunβ€˜s π“‡‹π“ π“ˆ–π“π“…±π“π“‹Ήπ“‹Ύπ“‰Ίπ“‡“ cartouche! Here is a breakdown of Tutankhamunβ€˜s π“‡‹π“ π“ˆ–π“π“…±π“π“‹Ήπ“‹Ύπ“‰Ίπ“‡“ name π“‚‹π“ˆ–:

π“‡‹π“ π“ˆ– – Amun
𓏏𓅱𓏏 – Tut (image)
π“‹Ή – Ankh (life/living)
π“‹Ύ – Ruler
𓉺 – of/on
𓇓 – Upper Egypt

I remember being so proud as a little girl when I mastered reading the cartouche, and started recognizing the words in other inscriptions π“Ÿπ“›π“₯! I think cartouches are a great place to start your hieroglyphic journey, because you begin to recognize the vocabulary elsewhere!

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Reading Hieroglyphs

Hathor in Hieroglyphs

Let’s read some hieroglyphs π“ŠΉπ“Œƒπ“ͺ!

This is the name π“‚‹π“ˆ– of the goddess π“ŠΉπ“ Hathor 𓉑 in hieroglyphs π“ŠΉπ“Œƒπ“ͺ! I’m sure you can see this, but Hathor’s name is unique compared to that of the other deities! This is because her name is written with a composite hieroglyph π“ŠΉπ“Œƒ! A composite hieroglyph π“ŠΉπ“Œƒ is the combination of many symbols into one symbol! Hathor’s 𓉑 name π“‚‹π“ˆ– is the combination of an enclosure 𓉗 and the falcon π“…ƒ.

𓉗 +π“…ƒ = 𓉑

If the two 𓏻 symbols were written separately, we would actually read Hathor’s 𓉑 name π“‚‹π“ˆ– as β€œHouse of Horus” or β€œEstate of Horus” (depending on how you translated the 𓉗 hieroglyph) – so that is the literal translation of her name π“‚‹π“ˆ–!

Just like other deities, there are many ways to write Hathor’s 𓉑 name π“‚‹π“ˆ– in hieroglyphs π“ŠΉπ“Œƒπ“ͺ! Here are some of ways:
π“₯
𓉑π“₯
𓉗𓁷𓂋𓆗 𓉑

Also, just look at how beautifully π“„€ carved this hieroglyph π“ŠΉπ“Œƒ is! I will never not be amazed at the incredible craftsmanship of the ancient Egyptians π“†Žπ“π“€€π“π“ͺ!

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Reading Hieroglyphs

Amun in Hieroglyphs

Let’s read some hieroglyphs π“ŠΉπ“Œƒπ“ͺ!

The inscription π“Ÿπ“›π“₯ that you see in the picture 𓏏𓅱𓏏 spells out the name π“‚‹π“ˆ– of the god π“ŠΉ Amun-Ra π“‡‹π“ π“ˆ–π“‡³π“Ί! While many gods π“ŠΉπ“ŠΉπ“ŠΉ had different variations on how to write their name π“‚‹π“ˆ– in hieroglyphs, the spelling of Amun-Ra π“‡‹π“ π“ˆ–π“‡³π“Ί was pretty consistent, which makes it an easy name π“‚‹π“ˆ– to recognize!

Let’s breakdown Amun-Ra’s π“‡‹π“ π“ˆ–π“‡³π“Ί name π“‚‹π“ˆ– into each individual symbol!

𓇋 – phonogram symbols for β€œj”
𓏠 – phonogram for β€œmn”
π“ˆ– – phonogram symbols for β€œn”
𓇳 – ideogram for β€œRa” (𓇳 can also be a determinative for sun, day, and time)
𓏺 – not pronounced! The β€œπ“Ίβ€ is there for spacing/aesthetic purposes!

Amun-Ra π“‡‹π“ π“ˆ–π“‡³π“Ί is the combination of the gods π“ŠΉπ“ŠΉπ“ŠΉ Amun π“‡‹π“ π“ˆ–π“€­ (originally god π“ŠΉ of the air, then evolved to become chief of the Egyptian gods π“ŠΉπ“ŠΉπ“ŠΉ) and Ra 𓇳𓏺𓁛 (god π“ŠΉ of the sun 𓇳𓏺). During the New Kingdom, Amun π“‡‹π“ π“ˆ–π“€­ and Ra 𓇳𓏺𓁛 were merged to create the single deity Amun-Ra π“‡‹π“ π“ˆ–π“‡³π“Ί. Amun-Ra π“‡‹π“ π“ˆ–π“‡³π“Ί was considered to be the father 𓇋𓏏𓀀 and protector π“…“π“‚π“Ž‘π“€œ of the pharaoh 𓉐𓉻. The worship 𓇼𓄿𓀒 of Amun-Ra π“‡‹π“ π“ˆ–π“‡³π“Ί was extremely popular and took on a cult-like following.

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Reading Hieroglyphs

Osiris in Hieroglyphs

Let’s read some hieroglyphs π“ŠΉπ“Œƒπ“ͺ!

The inscription π“Ÿπ“›π“₯ that you see in the picture 𓏏𓅱𓏏 spells out the name π“‚‹π“ˆ– of the god π“ŠΉ Osiris π“Ήπ“Š¨π“€­. β€œOsiris” is actually the Greek version of the name π“‚‹π“ˆ–; the ancient Egyptians π“†Žπ“π“€€π“π“ͺ probably would have pronounced his name π“‚‹π“ˆ– like β€œIsr.”

There are a couple of different ways to write Osiris’ π“Ήπ“Š¨π“€­ name π“‚‹π“ˆ–, but β€œπ“Ήπ“Š¨π“€­β€ is the most common way! Other variations are:
π“‡¬π“ˆ–π“ˆ–π“„€π“€­
π“Š©π“Ή

Osiris π“Ήπ“Š¨π“€­ is considered one of the most important deities in ancient Egypt π“†Žπ“…“π“π“Š–. While he is mostly known as the god π“ŠΉ of the underworld/afterlife 𓇼𓄿𓏏𓉐 (Duat), but that he also controlled all life π“‹Ήπ“ˆ–π“ from the underworld 𓇼𓄿𓏏𓉐. This means that Osiris π“Ήπ“Š¨π“€­ was associated with the annual flooding of the Nile River π“‡‹π“π“‚‹π“…±π“ˆ—π“ˆ˜π“ˆ‡π“Ί but also the growing vegetation and annual harvest. This makes sense since Osiris π“Ήπ“Š¨π“€­ is strongly connected with regeneration and rebirth, and the ancient Egyptians π“†Žπ“π“€€π“π“ͺ also associated the Nile π“‡‹π“π“‚‹π“…±π“ˆ—π“ˆ˜π“ˆ‡π“Ί with these characteristics. Osiris π“Ήπ“Š¨π“€­ was even thrown into the Nile π“‡‹π“π“‚‹π“…±π“ˆ—π“ˆ˜π“ˆ‡π“Ί after he was cut up by his brother π“Œ’π“ˆ– Seth π“Šƒπ“π“„‘π“£!

It was believed that every person, not just deceased 𓅓𓏏𓏱 pharaohs, became associated with Osiris π“Ήπ“Š¨π“€­ when they died! However people were not resurrected in this life π“‹Ήπ“ˆ–π“ (even Osiris π“Ήπ“Š¨π“€­ himself wasn’t technically resurrected), instead, the person was reborn into the next life and lived in the Duat 𓇼𓄿𓏏𓉐!

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Egyptian Artifacts Reading Hieroglyphs

White Limestone Sphinx of Hatshepsut

I was SO EXCITED to see the white limestone π“‡‹π“ˆ–π“ˆ™π“Œ‰ Sphinx π“Ž›π“…±π“ƒ­π“€ of Hatshepsut π“‡‹π“ π“ˆ–π“ŽΉπ“π“„‚π“π“€Όπ“ͺ again! It has been so long since I’ve seen this piece; it was honestly like greeting an old friend! This Sphinx π“Ž›π“…±π“ƒ­π“€ used to be in the main Hatshepsut π“‡‹π“ π“ˆ–π“ŽΉπ“π“„‚π“π“€Όπ“ͺ gallery at the MET, but for some reason it’s no longer there! Now it is hidden in one of the smaller galleries which is a shame because it is such a beautiful piece!

Most of Hatshepsut’s π“‡‹π“ π“ˆ–π“ŽΉπ“π“„‚π“π“€Όπ“ͺ statuary π“„šπ“ˆ–π“π“­π“€Ύ that was excavated from her temple 𓂦𓂋𓂦π“₯𓉐 were carved from red granite π“…“π“Œ³π“π“ŽΆ, however this one is carved from limestone π“‡‹π“ˆ–π“ˆ™π“Œ‰ – the red granite π“…“π“Œ³π“π“ŽΆ sphinxes π“Ž›π“…±π“ƒ­π“¦ and this Sphinx π“Ž›π“…±π“ƒ­π“€ are very different too. The white limestone π“‡‹π“ˆ–π“ˆ™π“Œ‰ sphinxes π“Ž›π“…±π“ƒ­π“¦ have much more feminine features as compared to the red granite π“…“π“Œ³π“π“ŽΆ ones most likely because they were used in different parts of the temple 𓂦𓂋𓂦π“₯𓉐 for different purposes.

This Sphinx π“Ž›π“…±π“ƒ­π“€ has been heavily reconstructed by using pieces that were modeled after the second Sphinx π“Ž›π“…±π“ƒ­π“€ just like this one, which is in the Cairo Museum. These two 𓏻 sphinxes π“Ž›π“…±π“ƒ­π“¦ most likely guarded the upper terrace of Hatshepsut’s π“‡‹π“ π“ˆ–π“ŽΉπ“π“„‚π“π“€Όπ“ͺ temple at Deir el-Bahri 𓂦𓂋𓂦π“₯𓉐 while the red granite π“…“π“Œ³π“π“ŽΆ sphinxes π“Ž›π“…±π“ƒ­π“¦ would have guarded the lower terrace.

Thanks to Hatshepsut’s π“‡‹π“ π“ˆ–π“ŽΉπ“π“„‚π“π“€Όπ“ͺ drive/intelligence and her architect Senemut π“Œ’π“ˆ–π“…π“€Ό, Hatshepsut will be remembered as one of the most prolific builders in Egyptian history! It’s such a shame that she doesn’t get the same recognition that Rameses II π“©π“›π“ˆ˜π“„Ÿπ“‹΄π“‡“ gets!

Instead of wearing the typical nemes π“ˆ–π“…“π“‹΄ head cloth that most pharaohs 𓉐𓉻𓏦 who were fashioned into sphinxes π“Ž›π“…±π“ƒ­π“¦ wear, Hatshepsut π“‡‹π“ π“ˆ–π“ŽΉπ“π“„‚π“π“€Όπ“ͺ is actually wearing a lion’s π“Œ³π“Ήπ“„Ώπ“„› mane! This is very typical of Middle Kingdom art! This piece is dated to 1479–1458 B.C.E., and I love seeing New Kingdom art imitate styles from the past!

Let’s read some hieroglyphs π“ŠΉπ“Œƒπ“ͺ!

(𓇳𓁦𓂓) – Maatkare
π“‡‹π“ π“ˆ– – Amun
π“ŒΊπ“π“‡Œ – Beloved
𓋹𓏏𓏙- Life Given
𓆖 – Eternity

β€œMaatkare, Beloved of Amun, Given Life for Eternity.”

I know this is strange, but β€œGiven Life” is written backwards! It should be β€œπ“™π“‹Ήβ€ not β€œπ“‹Ήπ“™β€ as it’s written (this inscription is read from right to left).

There’s also an added 𓏏, which makes it the feminine form! There’s a second sphinx π“Ž›π“…±π“ƒ­π“€ just like this one in the Cairo Museum, and on that sphinx π“Ž›π“…±π“ƒ­π“€, there is no added 𓏏! Why would one sphinx π“Ž›π“…±π“ƒ­π“€ use the feminine form and one use the masculine?! We will probably never know!